Random Music Thoughts

[Ojai Sam]

Yankees dump Kate Smith’s ‘God Bless America’ from rotation over singer’s racist songs

The Yankees have taken a stand against racism for their seventh-inning stretch. For 18 years, Yankee Stadium regularly used Kate Smith’s 1939 recording of “God Bless America” in t…

www.nydailynews.com

 

[Zeeba Neighba]

Yankees dump Kate Smith’s ‘God Bless America’ from rotation over singer’s racist songs

The Yankees have taken a stand against racism for their seventh-inning stretch. For 18 years, Yankee Stadium regularly used Kate Smith’s 1939 recording of “God Bless America” in t…

www.nydailynews.com

Hmmm, as a big Yankees fan and a former NYC resident (as well as a music fan who breaks out Kate Smith's greatest from time to time), how do I feel about this.
Ultimately it's going to come down to a lack of true empathy and understanding as I can't appreciate how persons of color feel about this
My guess thought most people at the stadium didn't know much about Kate Smith before this news story. Certainly only musical fogeys like Sam and I listen to her still.

I'm torn though because I'm not sure I've read anything that Kate Smith THE PERSON is racist - most articles post the two songs that she recorded "Pickaninny Heaven" and "That's Why Darkies Were Born" recorded in the 1930s with racist lyrics as the reason the Yankees (and now Flyers) are removing her version of "God Bless America" (hers is historically the most iconic version - now I fear the most infamous version - of that song). Those who listen to music of the 1920s-1940s certainly know than many artists recording songs that today make us shudder. Every year, my family watch "Holiday Inn" one of our favorite Christmas films and shudder when he dons blackface to sing a Lincoln's birthday song. But Bing (while accused of not being the best parent) was a big advocate of integrating race in music. Should that scene make us eliminate "White Christmas" from the radio choosing to play Kelly Clarkson's instead? What about Jolson's music (the most renowned blackface artist)? How about Sinatra's music who frequently teased Sammy Davis about his race despite his clear love of Davis (and Davis's enjoyment intriguingly of the humor).
Of course even Louis Armstrong and black artists performing Porgy and Bess used exaggerated uneducated, rural dialects of their own race.

Challenging issues for the music lover trying to be racially sensitive.

I should close of course with the idea that I don't care that much about the song being dropped. I'm a baseball traditionalist and agree that "Take Me Out to the Ball Game" should always be in the 7th inning stress but have found "God Bless America" as an odd interloper in that break. It was important symbolically especially at Yankees games after 9/11, but now (even though No I'm not forgetting) 18 yrs later, it has always seems strange and slightly jingoistic that it remains. It it that much a part of baseball's fabric and history - not really. Personally I'd drop the song altogether but now I'll be painted as anti-American for saying so

 

[Zeeba Neighba]

^
I will add on a more humorous note that I was VERY surprised the Flyers dropped this song too. For that hockey team, Kate Smith's version of "God Bless America" has been a good luck song since 1969 played before important Flyer games, and Philadelphians (little NYC to Philly dig here) will do anything for a win (even throw snowballs at Santa - oh that's right they do that just for fun)

 

[JazzyRandy]

Yankees dump Kate Smith’s ‘God Bless America’ from rotation over singer’s racist songs

The Yankees have taken a stand against racism for their seventh-inning stretch. For 18 years, Yankee Stadium regularly used Kate Smith’s 1939 recording of “God Bless America” in t…

www.nydailynews.com

America was a tremendously racist country, from the beginning and still into the 30s and 40s, and later. Kate Smith was a singer, not a philosopher or, as far as I know, heralded as a "great thinker" or whatever. I would guess that the vast majority of white people were either racist, believed most racist stereotypes, or at best were indifferent to the plight of racial minorities in America. That includes, Smith, players like Babe Ruth, and most of the fans. It was, frankly, a sign of the times.

Am I grateful that, in 2019, the Yankees organization made the decision to drop her version of the song. Well, I'm not ungrateful. But I also realize how easy that decision was. Drop one singer's version of the song, add another. Nothing really changed. OTOH, if the Yankees organization was really serious about removing from their historical log all mentions of people who voiced racist ideology, they would have to include most beloved players like Ruth, past owners, general managers, and managers. And since we all realize the Yankees aren't going to do that, I have to wonder does it really matter (in the sense of making me feel good about it) that they dropped Smith's song.

I've read/listened to several presidential biographies in the past few months. Washington, Jefferson, Polk, Teddy R, and read up about a few more. They were all racist. Some did more than the general population to try to minimally advance the treatment of racial minorities, but all believed the black race to be "naturally" inferior than whites, to be undeserving of full equal treatment under the law. Others were much worse when it came to race relations. Again, they were, to a man, creatures of their time and one has to try to separate their achievements from their flaws. (Though it harder for me to forget about Jefferson's flaws.)

In the end, the Yankees' decision matters not one whit. It won't stop me from attending a Yankees game if I have the opportunity, nor convince me to not attend. I'm glad they dropped it, but it's an old song by a dead performer and while it might have struck a chord to 25-year-old me, it really doesn't matter to middle-aged me.

 

[JazzyRandy]

Ultimately it's going to come down to a lack of true empathy and understanding as I can't appreciate how persons of color feel about this
...

... (and Davis's enjoyment intriguingly of the humor).
Of course even Louis Armstrong and black artists performing Porgy and Bess used exaggerated uneducated, rural dialects of their own race.

I appreciate that you took the time to speak on the subject! I won't reply to it because I think it's more a record of your thoughts on the matter and not really an invitation to enter the breach.

However, I did want to comment on the bits I quoted above. There is a wealth of study on the subject of excusing the culpability of white America's extreme racist past because of examples of blacks also participating in such behavior/shows/popular culture/shared beliefs of blacks/etc. Basically, it is unfair to somehow blame the black performer for doing what it took to earn a living during this time of such brutally oppressive systemic racism. Forget "earn a living", blacks were doing what it took to remain alive. During this time where lynchings were still commonplace, very few black people were going to confront any white person about the subject of racism. They simply smiled and took it. And sometimes, they echoed the same racist sentiments regarding their own race. There was nothing else they could do.

Certainly Sammy wasn't going to jeopardize his lucrative career by speaking out against his co-stars. Heck, the thought of a 22-year-old me telling a white boss that I didn't appreciate something racist he said wouldn't have crossed my mind, for fear I would be fired. And that was decades after Sammy's time.

Spoiler

I say this as ...
1) The grandson of a man who was forced to start a high school in his town, spending much of his own money, taking the job as principal at a loss, and spending thousands of hours of his life in the process, because blacks were not allowed to attend high school in the 1940s.

2) The son of a man who initiated, through sheer force of stubborn will, the first African-American Studies program at the HBCU where he taught, against the wishes of the school's administration. That administration, much like Sammy probably did, didn't want to offend the white population at large by providing an example of black people getting too full of themselves. There was a real sense of "just smile and accept it for now, and be happy with the small, gradual steps of improvement that the greater society/government doles out." JazzyRandySr ended up causing so much of a stir at the university, that while his beloved African-American Studies program continued and thrived, his career at that university ended soon after he started the program -- indeed his career as a professor in total. He found it impossible to "take it slow."
Edit
3) As, well, as me.

Cheers

EDIT: I apologize if this post goes over the line of the topics of discussion considered appropriate in the new&improved MG.

 

[Zeeba Neighba]

^
Love your comments, Randy, and was happy you did comment as you are reall6 the only one here currently who can truly speak to these issues. I agree it was very easy for the Yankees and Flyers to drop this version of the song. Doubt there wold be many defending Kate Smith because so few remember her (though she lived until 1980s few fans are still alive during her peak period that could make a stir. I’m just surprised they did it all. The higher ups probably care more about saving face/ not making a stink, and I find it hard to believe there was that much opposition. That being said it is the northeast and, being away 20 years, I am sure I’m underestimating the amount of folks that care.

Like most here iimagine, I tend to dismiss or suppress the sins of the artists in enjoying the art. Many film stars, musicians, authors were bad people or at least had bad habits or principles (as I guess many of us non celebs do) but surE created some enjoyable things. I’ll keep listening, watching, reading these things

Listened to Michael Jackson the other day, Although I still haven’t broken out my old Bill Cosby comedy albums. What’s the statute of limitations on those?

 

[JazzyRandy]

Listened to Michael Jackson the other day, Although I still haven’t broken out my old Bill Cosby comedy albums. What’s the statute of limitations on those?

If a person can listen to musicians who were blatantly racist (as almost every white musician was prior to 1950) and overlook their "sins", or if one can place on the highest pedastals past presidents whose racism is not in doubt (including Jefferson who repeatedly sexually assaulted and impregnated a 14 year-old Sally Hemmings and who, as a teenager, is suspected of sexually assaulting the female slaves on his father's plantation), I think it should be similarly easy to overlook whatever MJ or Cosby were accused of.

On the other hand, if one has great difficulty listening to racist musicians of the past, I can understand that listener also having difficulty enjoying the musical/artistical contributions of Jackson and Cosby.

I once had a hard time listening to the music of Miles Davis because his domestic violence against Cicely Tyson was more than I wanted to overlook. I eventually got past that obstacle, but I can never listen to any of his music without thinking of how horribly he treated her. Not once.

It is certainly a tough subject to consider. Even tougher when trying to weigh one "sin" again another. No easy answers here.

EDIT: We can add in Howard Hughes who used his power in Hollywood to bed aspiring starlets, and who ruthlessly destroyed the careers of any aspiring starlet who refused him. And do we stop watching any and every Weinstein/Miramax movie forever more? There's a lot of sinnin' goin' on. It's probably easiest to stick our collective heads in the sand and try to ignore it.

 

[Unsomnambulist]

If a person can listen to musicians who were blatantly racist (as almost every white musician was prior to 1950) and overlook their "sins", or if one can place on the highest pedastals past presidents whose racism is not in doubt (including Jefferson who repeatedly sexually assaulted and impregnated a 14 year-old Sally Hemmings and who, as a teenager, is suspected of sexually assaulting the female slaves on his father's plantation), I think it should be similarly easy to overlook whatever MJ or Cosby were accused of.

On the other hand, if one has great difficulty listening to racist musicians of the past, I can understand that listener also having difficulty enjoying the musical/artistical contributions of Jackson and Cosby.

I once had a hard time listening to the music of Miles Davis because his domestic violence against Cicely Tyson was more than I wanted to overlook. I eventually got past that obstacle, but I can never listen to any of his music without thinking of how horribly he treated her. Not once.

It is certainly a tough subject to consider. Even tougher when trying to weigh one "sin" again another. No easy answers here.

Well, if you think about it, we have all bought and used products that were made by murderers, rapists, embezzlers, sociopaths and Mets fans. Ignorance is bliss?

 

[Ojai Sam]

I’ve been working all day but am gratified to see that this fascinating discussion has continued. Randy has been posting a lot of thought-provoking ideas lately and I’m falling behind.

My time is short so I’ll just nibble at this one. In years gone by I would have been really upset at The Yankees’ decision to toss Kate aside. Now, it doesn’t bother me, although I question the validity of combing through the works of any prolific artist looking for offensive language. Racism and homophobia were so prevalent that few if any would survive the cut.

Long ago I gave up looking to artists for moral guidance. Call me a compartmentalizer if you must. However, I can’t listen to the Cos because the wholesome values reflected in his art are so disconnected from the man he turned out to be.

More later....

 

[axolotl]

These are such important musings, and I also am grateful that Zeebs, Randy, Sam, and Rick have weighed in, but especially Randy.

As you are aware, I could not let any significant subject pass without offering my worthless, banal, and embarrassing observations.

...7th inning stress...

So, I'm not the only one worried about getting stuck in the parking lot after the game?

Well, if you think about it, we have all bought and used products that were made by murderers, rapists, embezzlers, sociopaths and Mets fans. Ignorance is bliss?

I draw the line on Mets' fans. Dodger fans, too.

 

[Unsomnambulist]

This YouTube Channel Streams AI-Generated Death Metal 24/7

Dadabots was developed by two music technologists who wanted to prove that a neural network was capable of capturing the subtle stylistic differences between Death Metal, Math Rock, and other lesser-known genres.

motherboard.vice.com

Well, is it death metal or black metal? Because there is a difference... (The URL says "black".)

This line from the article sounds like something from a William Gibson novel:

“It's autonomous, running on a linux server somewhere in South Carolina,” he said. “You're hearing everything it makes.”

Edit: it would be funny if a company made a deal to have this as their telephone hold music...

 

[axolotl]

This YouTube Channel Streams AI-Generated Death Metal 24/7

Dadabots was developed by two music technologists who wanted to prove that a neural network was capable of capturing the subtle stylistic differences between Death Metal, Math Rock, and other lesser-known genres.

motherboard.vice.com

Well, is it death metal or black metal? Because there is a difference... (The URL says "black".)

This line from the article sounds like something from a William Gibson novel:

“It's autonomous, running on a linux server somewhere in South Carolina,” he said. “You're hearing everything it makes.”

Edit: it would be funny if a company made a deal to have this as their telephone hold music...

It's as emotionally fatiguing as the real thing.

I endured it for about eight minutes.

 

[Unsomnambulist]

Things get really interesting when the bots start writing bug-free computer code.

 

[Old Uncle Toe]

These are such important musings, and I also am grateful that Zeebs, Randy, Sam, and Rick have weighed in, but especially Randy.

Likewise.

I tend to stray from the MG by Fri noon and don't check back in over the weekend. I think it's all been said, but let me repeat one comment.

As are most of you, I'm a middle-aged European-American male and have no experience to understand discrimination firsthand. I appreciate when someone who is actually affected can give me a practical (i.e. non-emotional) sense of their experience. Randy, I appreciate your thoughts and I'm glad your children are being raised by a level-headed man.

I wonder -- is it a shame that it's news that the Yankees pulled Kate's song? It seems like that should be a natural evolution. We realize something might be offensive, we back off on it so as to err on the side of respect. We research, ask those affected, maybe at some point we go forward on it once again, but not until we've vetted the thing as acceptable by those affected. It seems a little Utopian but not so much that we couldn't all at least strive toward that level. I'm not trying to preach here, just musing.

 

[Unsomnambulist]

Hey @Zeeba Neighba, there's a new Rodrigo y Gabriela album dropping on April 26.

 

[Zeeba Neighba]

Hey @Zeeba Neighba, there's a new Rodrigo y Gabriela album dropping on April 26.

 

[Unsomnambulist]

 

[Unsomnambulist]

I appreciate what Spotify offers for the price it asks-- but I notice I don't enjoy music as much with it as I do my own files. Spotify is sorta like drinking diet soda from the 70s, sweetened with Saccharin.

Edit: OK, maybe this is too harsh. Maybe I'm still going through an adjustment phase to my new surroundings and not enjoying music as much.

 

[Old Uncle Toe]

I appreciate what Spotify offers for the price it asks-- but I notice I don't enjoy music as much with it as I do my own files. Spotify is sorta like drinking diet soda from the 70s, sweetened with Saccharin.

Edit: OK, maybe this is too harsh. Maybe I'm still going through an adjustment phase to my new surroundings and not enjoying music as much.

Agreed. But you get what you pay for. I consider Spotify like listening to the car radio when I was a teenager -- it's just a utilitarian device for providing a musical background while doing other things. For quality music I'd buy the album and listen to it on the home stereo. Still do.

(Granted, over the years my particular home stereo has become nothing to write home about either.)

Or were you talking about sound quality?

 

[Unsomnambulist]

Agreed. But you get what you pay for. I consider Spotify like listening to the car radio when I was a teenager -- it's just a utilitarian device for providing a musical background while doing other things. For quality music I'd buy the album and listen to it on the home stereo. Still do.

(Granted, over the years my particular home stereo has become nothing to write home about either.)

Or were you talking about sound quality?

I'm talking about sound quality, but I'm also talking about a personal hangup I have that I enjoy music more when I "own" it. Even if it's just 1s and 0s on a hard drive.

But I think I was in a bad mood when I wrote the original post and I do enjoy Spotify quite a bit. I just wish they offered lossless.